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Old 31/10/2019, 12:31 AM   #511
IllidanS4
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.
You said it in one of your first posts in this thread. Players go where other players go. If the server cannot provide singleplayer entertainment, it could be 0.3z or perhaps even another modification and the players will go elsewhere anyway, regardless of model downloading.

Without significant incentive to change version, no server owner would automatically do so. There are many factors at play:
  1. It's new.
  2. It has useful features.
  3. It is heavily promoted.
  4. It is expected to be used by others.
  5. It is simple to switch to.
  6. It has the majority of players.
If 0.3.8 was released, 1.-4. would be all generally true and thus 0.3.8 would be probably accepted and played by the majority of players. 5. may be difficult if some features are obsoleted, or if servers use plugins like YSF/SKY relying on memory addresses or structures, which of course need updating before being usable by the newest version. This is also amplified by the fact that there was no major server version for 2 years before 0.3.8, so these plugins could be developed relying more tightly on the specific server version. 6. is never true for a new version.

Generally, the pros outweight the cons for a new primary version, at least 4:2. Thus more and more servers adopt it, and after a while, 6. is also true. For any past version, upgrading to 0.3.7 would rule 5:1.

But now consider DL. DL started as a development version and still is a development version. Semi-official, alternate version. Two years ago, it was new, had useful features, but wasn't heavily promoted and relied on server owners to spread the word. It was the complete opposite: 2:4 - while it was new and useful, its future was unclear.

Even 0.3.7, while not new and without useful features when compared to DL, is still 4:2, while DL is now at 1:5, not being new anymore.

It's not that players don't want model downloading. It's just math. Had 0.3.8 been released, it would have been adopted as any new SA-MP version.

For comparison, 0.3.9 is currently for me at 3:3 (new, relatively promoted and probably expected to be used, but no significant features, not simple to switch to and of course no players).
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:32 AM   #512
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
If the player count is going to decline anyway, it's best to leave the mod in a preserved state.
Ehhh, this 14 year mod has 30k players right now, compared to all games on Steam that places it on the 26th spot, I'm sure you get my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
The DL client was only recently removed from the download page. It was up for 6-8 months and servers showed no improvement.
Yes of course it didn't, it was seen and published as a beta, no-one moves big communities to beta branches that may be dropped (i say MAY but that's what actually happened). New servers also didn't have the best chances compared to a few years ago with the server list being dead and stuff like that.

You seem like a logical guy, judging solely by your ability of developing such a complex mod and this and that, sooo why can't you piece together simple things. Everything that stirred up an argument in the past few years is because people are still enthusiastic around something you've created.

I find it illogical that you say you're burnt out and you're "done", but you spend all this time removing features, fighting against theoretical not-even-released mods, and stuff like that.

And I'm really baffled because it's not a money thing that's for sure because you would have sold the mod a long time ago if that was the case.








Also,
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Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
What are you talking about, you stupid cunt?
Nice.
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:37 AM   #513
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?




What do you say about these numbers Kalcor?
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:42 AM   #514
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

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Originally Posted by Romzes24 View Post
Are you kidding? In the Russian layout, the T button does not open the chat, everyone uses F6!
That changes then, it makes no sense to have multiple keys for the same function.
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:44 AM   #515
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
I honestly don't know. I'm just looking at the numbers.

If it were up to me (personal preference), I'd probably say go with DL. I spent several months on it.
If I may share my experience, in the past I used to script a lot of features, which I started to dislike, because I simply felt they don't belong to the gamemode and they are too far from the "singleplayer features". I'm extreme perfectionist and when I don't feel something is perfect or right, I tend to scrap even hundreds hours of work and I removed a lot of interesting features from the gamemode.

Last two years, I was going through some of the backups I had from 2008-2012 and I tried to return some of the removed features (since they were already completed) and I can simply tell players enjoy these features and it brought a lot of fun to them.
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:44 AM   #516
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

A final sa:mp version with the final changes you wish to make while including the DL and making it official seems like the right thing to do in my eyes. It would be the icing on the cake. Servers will be able to move on for one last time, plugins may need to be updated for one last time but it will end the scission and there will be one official final product.

Together with good advertising and other points of interest like IllidanS4 explained above, it can definitely work.
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:46 AM   #517
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

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Originally Posted by Tomboeg View Post
A final sa:mp version with the final changes you wish to make while including the DL and making it official seems like the right thing to do in my eyes. It would be the icing on the cake. Servers will be able to move on for one last time, plugins may need to be updated for one last time but it will end the scission and there will be one official final product.

Together with good advertising and other points of interest like IllidanS4 explained above, it can definitely work.
Maybe it's not the last, just the restart.
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:48 AM   #518
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
I'm interested in finding the truth about this because this will probably be the final sa-mp version.

The big English RP servers don't rely on sa-mp versions or sa-mp lists. They have a long registration processes and probably get most of their players from youtube/streamers.

ls-rp started out strong on DL, but then the server had to change management and domain names. It's possible the problems they had weren't strictly related to DL.

rc-rp banned one of the main youtubers promoting their server, right before 0.3.8 development started. Then TommyB managed to get himself kicked out of the beta team and off the 0.3DL list.

niCe said most of his players want DL. But he also said most of his players are on 0.3.7. DL is there, there's nothing stopping anyone running it. Why are the players not voluntarily switching over?

It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.
I think servers like BARP and BWRP have been a massive let down for the English community and have caused a decline in numbers. Both servers are on 0.3.DL. BARP was meant to revolutionalise the whole experience but turned out to be filled with issues.

The problem with Bullworth Roleplay (BWRP) is that they expect users to download a cache in excess of 100MB without downloads being redirected. Their adverts created hype but on launch day, 100KB/s downloads and bugs everywhere.

There are plenty of other English roleplay servers who do not redirect their downloads creating long waits before registration which I think is part of the problem.

It's a shame a lot of server owners neglect the wiki, but, I beleive pushing the custom model feature into the main branch would mean more exposure for servers like mine which would not have been possible without 0.3.DL.

Last edited by 4D1L; 01/11/2019 at 12:09 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 31/10/2019, 12:48 AM   #519
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
The big English RP servers don't rely on sa-mp versions or sa-mp lists. They have a long registration processes and probably get most of their players from youtube/streamers.
A few years ago, we ran a poll on RCRP asking how people found the server. You can view the results here - https://forum.redcountyrp.com/thread...-rc-rp.153039/

Looking at these results, we can assume around 25% of the server's population (myself included) discovered it by browsing the server lists. Obviously, that's only one server. You mentioned how LSRP was off the server lists for ages, but LSRP was a behemoth during its peak. RCRP has never been anywhere near the popularity that LSRP had during its golden years. Our highest recorded player count is 190, whereas theirs is 600. With such a stark difference in popularity, it was likely very easy for LSRP to keep getting new people due to the sheer amount of YouTube content & word of mouth generated by simply being that large. We weren't quite as lucky, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor View Post
rc-rp banned one of the main youtubers promoting their server, right before 0.3.8 development started. Then TommyB managed to get himself kicked out of the beta team and off the 0.3DL list.
Pretty sure he got unbanned about a month after we launched on 0.3.DL. The server peaked well in the following months, which can be seen in the chart I posted a few pages back.
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Old 31/10/2019, 01:07 AM   #520
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Default Re: Is it still worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr0heart View Post
What do you say about these numbers Kalcor?
Probably fake. I'd say sa-mp peaks around 20,000-30,000. The highest server peak was around 6000 and total players around 60,000. So, it's about 30% of where it was during the peak.

It doesn't matter anyway. The best times for me in sa-mp were probably during 0.2 when the player peak was only 4000-8000.
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